Za vse druzine

Plakatna akcija obsega okrog 70 plakatov, ki bodo od 26. oktobra do 15. novembra postavljeni v 8 večjih mestnih občinah: v Ljubljani, Mariboru, Celju, Kranju, Kopru, Novem mestu, Novi Gorici in Murski Soboti.

Plakatno akcijo je podprla Ambasada Kraljevine Nizozemske, medijski sponzor pa je TAM TAM.


Spletni naslov kampanije: http://www.zavsedruzine.si/


Video posnetek konference: http://www.vest.si/2010/10/26/obstajajo-razlicni-tipi-druzin-in-partnerstev/

Clanki:
24ur: http://24ur.com/novice/slovenija/vsem-druzinam-enake-pravice.html
Dnevnik: http://www.dnevnik.si/novice/slovenija/1042398272
Rtvslo: http://www.rtvslo.si/slovenija/nizozemska-je-odprta-drzava-slovenska-druzba-pa-je-konservativna/242482
Narobe: http://www.narobe.si/myblog/plakatna-akcija-kampanje-za-vse-druzine
Delo: http://www.delo.si/clanek/126675

Review of our case on ESCOL website

Review of our case on ESCOL website.The European Commission on Sexual Orientation Law (ESCOL) is a non-governmental and non-political network of legal experts.
link:
http://www.sexualorientationlaw.eu/news/2010-03-08%20Slovenia.html

English Translation of Narobe article

Link to the original article: http://narobe.si/stevilka-13/najboljsa-druzina
Družina
translated by:
Jasna Magić
jasnamagic@yahoo.com


The best family in the world

Marijan and Christian are Slovenes who have been living and working in America for the past 25 years. There they also registered their partnership of 30 years. In Slovenia they are mostly know as the couple who, in the States, adopted a baby girl and the court’s decision on adoption was also confirmed valid by the Slovene court as of March 1st 2010. This case presents an important milestone in the Slovene Law. For the Narobe magazine, Christian shared their experience, with Marijan in the background, on the process of adoption, their expectations, disappointments, happy endings, and never ending battle for equality. The family that could be the subject of envy by many is, amongst travels, work and play, carefully following the on-goings in Slovenia and is impatiently awaiting adoption of the new proposal of the Slovene Family Law.

They decided to adopt more than six years ago.

The desire to adopt was around for a couple of years, but we were always under the impression that the whole process is very complicated. It was only when we learned thorough a friend about a couple that adopted, that we finally decided to investigate the topic more in depth.

Did you turn to the adoption agency for help?

No, we were in touch with adoption specialist and she found us a birth mother willing to give her child up for adoption. We decided for private adoption as otherwise the process would be too long and too complicated and we already filed for legal adoption when still in the process of searching for a mother. We were working together with adoption agency in New Jersey that prepared a home study including references and other additional requirements, such as financial and social competences for becoming parents

Were you treated equally to heterosexual couples or did you have to face additional barriers as a gay couple?

No, there was absolutely no difference. From the beginning we were treated as any other couple wanting to adopt. There was a lot of bureaucracy in terms of collecting papers, statements from co-workers and family as that was all part of the study that the agency was putting together. We both had to fill in a lot of questionnaires on our lives and all that information was subsequently also checked by the social services. Within the first year, when the adoption wasn’t official yet, we had a lot of announced and unannounced visits from social services. They also interviewed and assessed everyone, who was staying with us, the nanny, all the guests, and all that in order to protect the interest of the child.

How long was the preparation process?

The study was complete relatively quickly. The center for social work from New Jersey took three months to confirm that we are suitable as parents. Part of the preparation process was also our portfolio, a booklet for potential mothers, which included information about us and statements as well as our wishes and expectations.

Was it a demanding process?

It was all very challenging, financially and emotionally. Financially, Federal Adoption Law as well as State Adoption Law, strictly set payment of expenses incurred in connection with the mother's pregnancy and the child's birth For example, all the payments to the mother need to be approved by a lawyer. The law is very clear on that and needs to be followed without exception as otherwise payments to the mother could be understood as a direct compensation for the child, i.e. as a payment for the child. Emotionally, however, the process was even harder. Namely, the agency found the first mother quite quickly; she picked us up based on our portfolio. We were present at the birth of a baby girl on 24th December 2004 and were in touch with the baby constantly, for the following two days, when on the third day the mother changed her mind and decided to keep the baby.

How did you manage to overcome that?

We were completely devastated. It’s hard to describe how we felt then. Those were the hardest days and that little girl is still in our hearts and minds. However, soon after January 1st 2005 we got a call from our adoption specialist, who wanted to know if we wanted to continue with the process. For us it was a very hard decision, however we decided to continue, with an even greater desire and deeper knowledge on what our decision might bring. Soon after, we found out that the specialist was already in touch with a birthmother, who was rejected, when the selected couple found out that the father of the baby is black. For us, of course, that was not a problem and the specialist sent out our portfolio on the same day. There were some concerns that the mother might have hesitations because we are a gay couple, but when we introduced ourselves, it became clear that our sexual orientation is not going to be a problem. All she wanted was an open adoption. We were overexcited, but at the same time feared that she might change her mind as well.

But it all worked well in the end…

Yes, the baby was supposed to be born on January 25th 2005, exactly a month after the first experience, that didn’t work out. The mother then called us already on January 4th as she was told that she will probably give birth earlier than predicted. In the end Zora was born on January 5th 2005. Everything was happening so fast then. We flew to Phoenix in one day, drove to the hospital and met the mother and our Zora. We were overjoyed. We obtained physical responsibility for Zora in the hospital one hour after we got there and thus became responsible for our daughter. As Zora was born prematurely she didn’t have the sucking reflex, so we had to become active parents immediately. We fed her every two hours for the next three days. The nurses and other staff were incredible. They were all fond of us and none of them had any negative comments.

You mentioned an open adoption, what is that?

Open adoption – in short – enables the birthmother to stay in touch with the child and vice versa, the child can obtain information on biological parents at any time. The scope of open adoption is set by the birth as well as adoptive parents. They need to come to an agreement how and when they will be in touch, regarding the child. We consented to open adoption as we understand and acknowledge that Zora will always have a mother and two sisters. Zora speaks to her birthmother almost once a week and we send her pictures and reports on how Zora is doing.

How did Zora change your lives and how was she accepted by the rest of your family?

Zora introduced a completely new dimension to our lives. We are so happy and extremely grateful to Zora's mother for her gift. Zora is the biggest treasure and a daily source of happiness and fulfillment in our, as well as the lives of our family and friends all over the world. Our family and friends, as well as our working environment have really been there for us during the whole process and provided us with all the help we needed. I got 3 months of paternity leave at work, which here in the States is not stated by law, which was equal to the amount of leave the mothers get in the same company. We never heard any negative comments about out family and in the States as well as in Slovenia all the people we met only had positive reactions and Zora always tells everyone »We are the best family in the world!«.

You are now officially Zora's parents also in here in Slovenia. What does the final decision of the Supreme Court of the Republic of Slovenia mean to you?

The reason for our application four years ago was that Zora should have the same rights also in Slovenia and that she should be acknowledged as our daughter and obtains Slovene citizenship. We are well aware of the importance of the court’s decision and are very grateful to Urša Chitrakar, our lawyer, for her extraordinary work, but also to all the judges who were deciding on this case and decided which interests matter most. All involved in this case knew well from the beginning that it would be a long process, nonetheless, important for us as a family and the Slovene society. We were all extremely happy when the final decision was out, but even more that the decision was final just in time when the proposal on the new Family Law is being debated on.

Kako doživljata razpravo o novem Družinskem zakoniku, predvsem tisti del o istospolnih družinah?

How is to follow the debate on the proposal on the new Family Law, especially the part on the same-sex families?

Following the comments, I can see we were extremely lucky so far. Now, more than ever before, we see how Slovenia moved away from respecting human rights and it was due to the public comments that we also wanted to come out to the media and present our family. We wanted to show that we are as any other family.



An interview with lawyer Urša Chitrakar, who represented Marijan and Christian in the process of recognition and enforcement of the foreign judgment on adopting a child.

Why did you decide to take on this case?

I knew that Slovene courts recognize foreign judgment’s on adoption; however I never before noted that the courts here would deicide on recognizing such judgments where the adoptive parents are a same-sex couple. Christian, Marijan and Zora were the first gay family I met. When we first got together, in New York, I immediately realized that there shouldn’t be any reasons why same-sex couples shouldn't have or be able to adopt children. That is why I thought it important that the recognition of such adoption is argued, of course I was also curious of the court’s reaction and how it will decide.

How long was the process and what was it like for you?

The process started in November 2006 and finished in March 2010. Things were not unraveling as I expected, as I firmly believed at first that the court would refuse our case already at the first stage and I would have to appeal to the Supreme and Constitutional court and maybe later even to the European court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. Thus I spent a lot of time in the beginning, studying the case law of the European Court of Justice.

Did you encounter any challenges in the process and how did you overcome them?

The first surprise happened already at the beginning when the district court stopped the process and appealed to the Constitutional court for a constitutional review of the article 135 of Marriage and Family Relations Act and The Registration of a Same-Sex Civil Partnership Act. The court namely believed that those two acts, to be used in the process, are unconstitutional and not in line with the European Convention on Human Rights as they don't allow adoption to extramarital union and same-sex couples and thus create unequal legal position. Constitutional court however did not deliver a decision on whether those two acts are unconstitutional as it considered that the district court in the process of recognizing a foreign judgment doesn't have to use (controversial) articles from Marriage and Family Relations Act and The Registration of a Same-Sex Civil Partnership Act, but the Act that regulates the procedures and conditions for recognition of the foreign judgment i.e. Private International Law and Procedure Act.

Interesting thing happened also later in the process; namely when the American judgment was recognized and legally binding also here in Slovenia, we filed an application to enter Zora into the Slovene birth registry. Administrative unit, due to the existent computer software, could not enter the names of both fathers, as the software presupposed a mother and a father. That is why the software needed to be modified.

And the last surprise was filing of a request for protection of legality by the State prosecution office after the American judgment was already recognized and legally binding.

Why, do you think, the State prosecutor filed a request for protection of legality?

The State prosecutor can file a request for protection of legality against any legally binding judgment, if the regulations from Civil Procedure Act are met. The State prosecutor’s office believed that the district court made a mistake in assessing regulations and that the effects of recognition of the foreign judgment are in discrepancy with public policy of the Republic of Slovenia as they compromise legal and moral integrity of the existent Slovene legislation.

What does this decision mean for the Slovene law case and the current process of adopting the new proposal of the Family Law?

I think it’s very important that already the district court expressed doubt that the current legislation on family and same-sex couples are in line with the Slovene Constitution. The same question was also addressed by the Superior court in their judgment. In Slovenia it is obviously the judges that call for changes and point out that the current Family Law is obsolete.  

By recognizing a foreign judgment on adoption however an absurd situation occurred, as same-sex couples in Slovenia, according to currently still valid legislation, cannot become parents by adopting, but they can adopt abroad and ask for the adoption to be legal in Slovenia. Similarly, another inconsistency, in Slovenia an individual, regardless of their sexual orientation can adopt, whereas same-sex couple cannot.


The case is now closed and Christian and Marijan finally decided to bring their story to the media. At first however they were refusing interviews as you advised them to do so, why?

As I believe that a widespread media and public debate on (whichever) legal topic that is in the legal proceeding can exert pressure on judges and might have a negative impact on their final decision.

Serbian posting of Polet article

http://www.gsa.org.rs/cms-run/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2294:zivot-je-prekratak&catid=38:scena&Itemid=58

Zora's school picture

Objektiv Article

(Andrej Brstovšek) Če enkrat v življenju zadaneš na loteriji, je to čisto dovolj. Objektiv 3.april, 2010

English text:

It was last Saturday, on a peaceful Saturday afternoon in the state of New Jersey, that Zora learned to ride a bike. Learning on a street where there are more squirrels than passing cars, she only needed help with starting. If she had a problem she yelled:”Who is going to hold me, Ochi, Papi?”  to Christian and Marijan.

She calls Christian “Ochi” and Marijan “Papi”. They adopted Zora right after she was born on January 5th 2005. It was their next move that brought them into spotlight in Slovenia: they wanted  that Slovene legal system recognizes their American adoption, thus making Zora a Slovenian citizen, and Christian and Marijan first gay couple with legally recognized adoption in the country. We talked to them shortly after their big victory in the Supreme court.

You did not give any interviews before your final victory in court. Why?

C: We did not want to expose ourselves in a sensationalistic way. We did not want give an impression that we are trying to influence court's decision through media. 

Did you have any idea of what it was going to take to get the adoption legally recognized in Slovenia?

C: Not at the beginning. We are Slovenian citizens, we have our home there,  and we'll go to live back there, so we wanted to protect Zora's interests with making her a Slovenian citizen. When we started to look for possibilities to get the adoption recognized in Slovenia, we met our future lawyer Ursa Chitrakar, that was just visiting New York. She let us know that our case will probably be a landmark case, so it will most likely take a lot of time and will power to win it. 

M: We just wanted to get Zora registered with Registry of births. If we weren't successful in Slovenia we would probably had gone to European court.

Where did you find out about court's decision?

In the US. Two weeks earlier when Zora had winter recess in her school, we were in Slovenia on holiday. At the time we were waiting for the news regarding court's decision not knowing it was coming shortly. A week after returning to the US, our lawyer informed us that she'd received a copy of Supreme court decision. Supreme court upheld district court decision that recognized our adoption.

You have opened a door for all the couples with similar wishes. Do they seek you out for advice?

C: No, not at all. Everything is still fresh. Besides, we would like to keep a certain degree of privacy. That is why our last names are not known. But if anyone would need help or information, we would gladly help, as we think it would be in interest of human rights protection.

The beginning of the story goes back 25 years, when you decided to move to the US.

M: 25 years ago I was offered a job in architecture that I accepted. I stayed for a year, and then another year...

C: We were a couple in Slovenia already. In April we will have our 30th anniversary. Our relationship was no secret in Ljubljana. Looking at current events in Slovenia, I think that our environment was more tolerant to such relationships before we moved to US. As Marijan was deciding whether to stay in the US his brother in law offered me a job in the same company, as he wanted to keep Marijan. We have been living in New Jersey since then. We have a registered partnership and 19 years ago also bought a house there. 

Adopting a child is an important decision. How did you come upon this decision?

C: We wanted to offer someone a better life and enrich ours. At first we were not sure about it, we thought of it as too complicated. Then we met, through mutual friend, a gay couple that successfully adopted. It turned out not to be such a complicated thing. Therefore we decided to go for it. We chose a private adoption. You still have to go through all the necessary process with social services, but you seek potential mothers with help of private adviser. It gives you a better chance of getting a new born; That is not the reason we chose private adoption, but it is easier to raise a child from its birth.

How much time had passed from when you made the decision to adopt to actually adopting Zora?

Together: Nine months!

C: No exaggeration. From making a decision, all the process with social services and to Zora's birth it was 9 months. After meeting a lot of people with different outlooks on life, we met in August 2004 a potential mother. She was pregnant, 18 years old, she already had a 2 year old. Her father died in car accident. She was to give birth on 24th December 2004. Two days prior to that date we flew into Arizona, as we agreed that we would be there for the birth of the child and would immediately assume all parental rights. We got the newborn into our hands shortly after she was born, we received the imprints of her feet, visited her, but on the third day a social worker informed us that the mother changed her mind. At that moment the world fell apart for us. We thanked the family anyway. The night in Tuscon that we waited for the plane was the longest and saddest night in our lives. 

On January 1st our adoption specialist called us and asked us if we are going to keep on looking. We were in agony but we decided to pursue the matter further. Shortly after she called us again and said she found a new mother. The couple that was to adopt her child changed their mind when they found out that the father of the child was black. That was not an issues with us, nor it was the sex of the child. Adoption specialist fedexed our profile to the mother, who was Native American. Afterwards we called her and she said she did not any objections to us being a gay couple. She considered it an advantage as she will therefore always be child's mother. We agreed to an open adoption – an adoption where adopted child keeps certain contact with biological parents. Scheduled birth was at the of January but the doctors said it might happen sooner. On January 5th at 3 am we received a call and boarded the fist flight to Phoenix. We rushed to the hospital and found the mother. As soon as we stepped into her room we saw a beautiful baby girl. Mother said to us: “here is your child.” We are taking care of Zora from her first day on. Even today she prefers the story of how we went to get her as her good night story. 

What about her father?

C: He learned of Zora a year after she was born.

M: We helped the mother the best way we could. There are strict regulations regarding this. Child trafficking is against the law, so you are very limited in offering a financial help to the mother. You can pay for certain things, for example her rent or medical costs, but all has to be approved by the lawyer, who checks that everything is in accordance with the law. The money does not go directly to the mother but to the person she owes it to. 

Was it coincidence that both mothers were from Arizona?

C: Yes. Arizona has a law that allows mother to change her mind in 3 days. There are only five states with such provision. In California for example the mother can change her mind in the course of one year. Shorter deadline makes things easier. 

M: Arizona is one of the states with a high adoption rate. Mexico is close by and there is also a strong Catholic influence so there are fewer adoptions.

How do you cope with fatherhood?

C: Zora had jaundice right after birth so they kept her in hospital for a few days. Hospital employees gave us an intense crash course. They were really helpful. When mother came to say goodbye to Zora it was very emotional. But she said she knew Zora is going to be ok as she was in good hands. After that we went  to the airport and had nothing but positive experience from then on. The pilot announced that there is a newborn on the plane and gave her pilot wings so she will have a memory of her first flight. 

How does that go together with the image of conservative America?

M: Conservative, liberal, whatever... but it is not narrow-minded.

C: We had nothing but positive experience in the city that we live in. And we are the only gay couple in the neighborhood. They all want the best for us. Unfortunately we were not able to have Zora baptized in the Slovenian church. But I vaguely knew a Roman Catholic priest in New Jersey and I gave him a call: “Father Jim, we adopted a daughter, we would like to have her baptized, we are both Roman Catholic, but we do not go to church, and we are a gay couple.” He repeated everything and said: “What seems to be the problem?”. We knew at once that he is the right one for the job. 

What was the role of social services?

C: They check everything even before the adoption: financial standing of all family members (nanny included), and they check for criminal records. They made announced and unannounced visits, they checked the state the child was in, raising environment, etc. This lasted for a year, until adoption was final in the court. 

Does she want to see her mother?

M: She has constant contacts with her mother. We send her photos, and talk to her on the phone once a week or two weeks. Zora also has two step sisters and she talks to them as well. But so far she has never said that she would like to see them. She asks about her mother from time to time, especially when they talk about it in school. People in her school are exceptional. Teachers always explain her the situation so she would not have any traumatic experiences. 

One of the leading arguments against gay couples adopting is that a child needs a mother.

C: A child needs love, understanding and respect.

M: Of course a child also need a parent that is more strict and a parent that spoils her a bit (smile). 

What if she ever wants to meet her father?

C: We won't have any objections to her being in contact with him, if she wants to. She will be completely free to make her own decisions, when old enough. We are raising her so that she always knows that she has a mommy, two sisters, etc. We do not hide from her her biological family.

Does she want a brother or a sister?

C: She does not mention it. But if her mother were to give a birth to another child and would give it for adoption we would adopt it without a second thought. Having a child is the biggest gift and this experience profoundly changed our lives. But we are not actively looking for another child.

Puberty is a difficult period in child's life. How are you preparing for it and for her being teased from other peers?

C: No parents knows in advance how their child will act in puberty. You have to solve such problems as they arise. We are not thinking about it. When the time comes we will act in a way that we'll deem to be the best for Zora and her interests. We hope that given all the experience she will have until then that she will completely trust us and we will solve this issues together. As for the teasing and bullying by her peers, I think she will be able to deal with it. We are raising her in spirit of human values and I am sure she will be well equipped to respond in an appropriate way. We are also sure that she will have positive self image and won't let other people define who she is. 

M: I would like to add that in my opinion the objections people have towards different types of families will with time become disappear. Society will accept sch families and such issues won't be even relevant then.

How do people respond to you when you visit Slovenia?

M:  A lot of people in Ljubljana and Piran know Zora. Even though we come to Piran once every 6 months they all remember her. In a bar next to our house there is even a photo of here.

C: We only have positive experiences. I do not know, if it is luck... But I must that we are really shocked by the discussion in Parliament regarding the new Family law. We didnt expect such primitive commentaries, irrelevant researches, etc...

Polet Article

(Andrej Jaklič) Življenje je prekratko. Polet, 11.Marec, 2010.

English text:

Life's too short

Conversation with Christian and Marijan to whom Slovene court recognized adoption granted by a foreign court.

Christian and Marijan live in the USA, where they formed a civil union. In 2005 they adopted Zora (US law allows such adoptions). They assumed all parental rights and responsibilities. As they got Zora right after she was born, there are genuine daughter-parents ties between them. They are legally recognized as a family. 

It is when they tried to get Zora registered with the state administrative unit in Slovenia, that things got complicated. Administrative unit stopped the registration process and demanded that they first get judicial recognition of foreign (US)court decision that granted them the adoption. That is because all foreign judicial decision must be first recognized by a Slovenian court, before administrative unites can act upon them. When Slovenian court recognized US court decision, state prosecutor of the Republic of Slovenia appealed to that decision.

Supreme court finally rejected state prosecutor's appeal. Now Zora is registered in Registry of births, has Slovenian passport and all the rights as a Slovenian citizen. 

What are the reasons for you choosing to move to US 30 years ago?

M: I got an opportunity to work in the US as an architect. Soon after I moved there, my brother in law offered my partner Christian a job. That is how we both ended up here. 

C: We both felt that it was a good opportunity, specially to further develop in our professional fields. I knew it was a great opportunity, so making such a decision was easy. But it was hard to leave family and good friends. 

Where you a couple already then or had you departure had anything to do with understanding of homosexuality back home? 

C: I think there was a quite good understanding of homosexuality in Slovenia at the time that we left. We were both “out of the closet” by then, and so were many of our friends. There were bars in Ljubljana that we used to hang out in. So no, us leaving had nothing to do with our sexual orientation.

You have been a couple for 30 years now, and have been living in USA for the last 25 years, right? You have decided quite late, given your age, to adopt a baby; at least in comparison with heterosexual families. 

M: It is true that we decided quite late. Of course, we had talked about it long before that. Then we met a happy homosexual couple that adopted a girl and we got a lot of information as to how to go about fulfilling that particular wish of ours.  

C: In less than a month we are having 30th anniversary of our life together. It is true that we decided quite late to adopt a baby, but we are aware of the fact that the decision for that came at the right time in our life and after much deliberation. For me, years are only numbers and you are truly as old as you feel. We live a very healthy life and are taking care of our bodies. That is why I can say that we are in very good shape for our age. Now that we have Zora we are even more focused on staying healthy and fit, because we need a lot of energy. I would like to emphasize that we registered a civil union, but are not married as some wrongfully claim in the media.    

What are the reasons for the timing of the adoption? Were the society or US law at that time not susceptible to such adoptions, or was it a planned decision that given the importance of the matter it only took a you bit longer to make.  

M: It was our personal decision. When we saw that it could be done,we tried to make it happen as soon as possible. 

C: At the time when we were making our decision to adopt the law in New Jersey made no difference between homosexual and heterosexual couples who wanted to adopt. 

Have you always wanted a child or did the desire to have one came later?

M&C: We got the desire to have children 15 years ago, but only discussed it since we had no idea how to start the adoption process. 

Who was more for it?

M: Christian was a driving force with this decision, but we were always in accord. I was a bit afraid that all the trouble will be for nothing. 

C: As we started contemplating the possibility of adoption, we were more and more convinced that the only possible failure would be not to try at all. I was not afraid of neither the failure nor of the process. I firmly believed that whatever was meant for us would happen. We informed our parents and our close ones about the decision and they supported us. Some where a bit surprised but most not all, since they found our decision to be good and smart. 

Was socializing with homosexual couples that had children a key reason for your decision to adopt?

M: Not at all.

C: I agree with Marijan. Aside from our friends that have 2 children, we don't know any other families of this kind. But knowing these two made our adoption process easier since we learned a lot from their experience. 

Are homosexual families in any way formally organized? Is such organizing to protect their interests even necessary?

M: I don't think so. I don't think there is a need to protect their interests. 

C: Homosexual families are treated as any other family and have the same rights and responsibilities. Therefore they do not need to formally organize themselves in order to protect their interests. 

What was the adoption process like in your case?

M: First we registered with the adoption agency in New Jersey. They pointed us to social services that evaluate eligibility of potential adopters.  This process was very detailed. They check our social and economic standing. There was a lot of interviews and inspections in our home and that of our friends. I can say that our experience with social services was a very good one. We never had a feeling that they might be treating us differently than they would be heterosexual couples. We were at all times aware of the fact that such procedures are needed for the protection of the adoptee. After completion of that stage we connected with a specialist for private adoptions. She connected us with future mothers that were planning to give up their children for an adoption. These were mostly mothers who got pregnant but were against the abortion, and were at the same time not able to take care of the future child, because of economic or some other reasons. Specialist for the adoption would made first selection, however we would got in contact with many future mothers who were planning to give up their children for an adoption.

After numerous conversations we found parents who were willing to give us their child for an adoption. But the mother changed her mind in the last moment. It was a very painful experience for us, even though we always knew that it may happen. The fact that we were present at the birth of the child and were with her for 2 days made it even more hurtful. After we came back home it was the most sad Christmas we ever had. 

Right after new year our luck changed. Our specialist for an adoption called us and let us know that she found a mother who is willing to give up her child for an adoption. This was followed by four very intense days. One could write a book about it. Our Zora was born prematurely and right after we learned of the fact we took a plane to the place she was born. As we got there we signed all the necessary documentation and assumed parental rights and responsibilities right away. Zora was less than a day old. We waited for 9 days for all the necessary papers and to be allowed to take Zora back home in New Jersey.

Was your case in any way special or is it a common adoption?

M: Our case was common, regardless of the sexual orientation.

C: Our case in no different from other adoptions in USA. It was maybe a bit more expensive since it was a case of a domestic adoption.

Has the form of adoption you had chosen (open adoption) made the adoption process easier or not?

M: Open adoption made it possible for us to get a child right after birth and not from a foster home or an orphanage.

C: We had chosen private adoption – meaning that we alone, with a help from a specialist, searched for a potential birth mother, and also an open adoption – meaning we would keep in touch with the mother (sharing with her information, photos, etc) so she would informed of Zora's life. Zora is legally our child now and her mother has no rights over her even as a biological mother, but we believe she will always be her mother. She gave us a greatest gift of love. For that we will always be grateful to her from the bottom of our hearts. In closed adoptions, contact between adopters and biological parents in not allowed.

You regularly keep in contact with Zora's mom. What is her behavior towards Zora like? Are you afraid that some day Zora would want to go back to her? What if her wish to do so was really powerful?

M: Yes, we keep regular contacts with her mother. She is kind and loving towards Zora. Zora knows she has a mother who lives in Arizona and also knows she has 2 older sisters. Of course, we want them to be in contact with us. Zora will always have her biological family. When is grows up, she will have all the right any free human has. The most important decision she has to make is either she will want to keep in contact with her biological relatives or not.

C: As I already said in the previous answer, this is one of the reasons we chose to opt for an open adoption. We want to give Zora the best possibilities to understand the situation, so she will be able to choose herself what kind of relationship she wants to have with her biological family. Zora's mom will always be her mom. No one can change that. Nobody wants to change that. So questions like “why you don't have a mommy?” or “why you have 2 daddies?” wont be a problem. 

First mother that you chose changed her mind. It must have been hard for you, specially because you were present at the birth of the baby.    

M: It is a mother's right to change her mind in a given time period. This experience gave us even more energy. Before the adoption process we did not know what the lives of mothers that give their children up for adoption are like. In most cases they have a really tough life. First mother was 18 years old, and that was her second child. She lived in a trailer in Tuscon suburbs with her child, younger sister and her child, 8 brothers and sisters and her parents. Her parents and even grandma were very surprised when she changed her mind and chose to keep the baby. Father of the child promised to take care of her and for her other child, son of 2 years, as well. Father was unemployed and had trouble with the law. I hope that family is healthy and happy.

First months and feelings?

M: First months were of course a big change for us. I can say it was the best change in our lives. Of course there were sleepless nights, but it was all worth it. To see Zora's happy face in clean diapers and well fed was priceless. 

C: I was lucky that the company I work for granted me 3 months paternal leave. So we were able to adjust to new life easier.     

You seem to be living in an environment that is, at least legally, obviously much more tolerant towards homosexuals as is Slovenia at the moment. What is the actual state of affairs or what does the “street” say? 

M: Regardless of the law, I think that society here really accepted possibilities of different types of families. We all can go proudly on walk on our street or town. He haven't gotten yet any negative commentaries regarding our family.

C: Same goes for our travels abroad. First year we had to present a lot of adoption documentation when we traveled to prove that Zora is our daughter. I think that is necessary and positive. 

One of the prevailing arguments is that a child needs a mother, especially in those early years. There are few studies on homosexual families and they refute that, but still: do you each play different family roles in raising Zora?

M: I think the most important thing a parent can do is to show as much love as he can and be a positive guidance. We both participate equally in raising her. 

C: I must say that our daughter gets a lot of parental love and love from all the people we know, be it here in US, in Ljubljana, Piran or any other place in the world we go to. As with most families one parent is more authoritative and the other lets her get away with certain things more... Our daughter knows very well who which one is which.  

I guess there is no reason to hide from here how you became her parents?

M: Zora knows she is adopted and that she is in our family because we wanted very much her to be.

C: We absolutely never had any intentions of hiding that fact from her.  That is why we chose open adoption in the first place. We have been reading her Valentina P. Wasson's “The Chosen Baby” since she was a baby. The book is about adoption process and to what lengths do parents go to adopt a child. Story about little Peter is written with a lot of love and feelings; it is hard to believe the book was written in 1939. It has brought a lot of understanding and joy to adopted children all over the world.

What about Zora, does she understands terms father and mother?

M: Zora knows she has two daddies and a mother with whom she talks at least once a week. She also knows that other kids in kindergarten have a mommy and daddy. She says she is very happy that she has two daddies and that we are the greatest family in the world!

C: For me the most important thing is that Zora is a happy and fulfilled child, and that she gets all the love and attention from her parents that every child deserves. Regardless of whether the parents are biological or not, homosexual or heterosexual.

 I guess her understanding changes as she grows up, or not?

C: I think that Zora now that she is five years old, clearly understands our part as parents and she loves us very much, which she shows us daily. We are a normal family that is full of love and happiness. We are supporting her with love and care in every stage of her life.  

How does she communicate with other children in school or in the neighborhood? Are you afraid she might come home someday and say:”who is my mommy, you are not my dads”.

M: No. She knows well who her mother is.

C: Since we've never hidden adoption from Zora and she understands in what kind of family she lives in, I believe this will not be a problem. If there would ever be a problem like that, we will try to solve it as any other family does when their child comes home with a problem. 

 How does communicating with other parents go?

M&C: Ever since Zora has been visiting kindergarten we have been in regular contact with other parents. We host and go to birthday parties, special events in school, etc. The only comments we received so far were of Zora's nice manners and of her good family upbringing.

Do you think Zora is developing different behavioral patterns than her schoolmates from heterosexual families? Is she interested in other things, are her responses different, etc...?

M&C: We have never noticed any difference in behavior between Zora and her peers.

Zora may go to school in Slovenia; she speaks and understands Slovene. Do you expect there might problems with her socialization; different cultural space and especially her having homosexual parents?

M:We don't expect any problems. There are a lot of negative comments in Slovenian media, but I think that is a result of not knowing the situation well enough. We have been in Slovenia many times and we have never been hiding the fact that Zora has two daddies. We never received any negative comments. 

C: Based on what I have heard in the discussions in Slovenian Parliament regarding the new family law, I have come to a conclusion, sadly, that our positive experience in Slovenia is more product of luck of never running into people with different outlook on the matter and it does not reflect the actual state of things.  

Zora understands Slovene very well, even though she is shy to speak it, specially now that she spends most of her days in an English speaking environment. When she has a chance to interact with Slovene speaking kids she quickly overcomes her shyness and communicates without problems. We are trying to organize play dates with other Slovenian children that live in the area of NJ and NY. For two month we had a Slovene kindergarten in NYC once a week,, but unfortunately the organizer had to cancel it. We were disappointed since it was a very nice group of 5 girls of Slovenian decent and of the same age. 

Do you believe cases like yours can become a common thing in Slovenia?

M: I think so. I believe the main reason for the opposition is the fear of the unknown. 

C: As I am, by nature, a positive human, I sincerely hope that most of my fellow countryman is tolerant and mature enough to accept us as a family that is different only by how archaic social norms label it as something that is not normal, or even unmoral,  as it was presented in the Parliament.

Your won case does not mean that homosexual couples can adopt children in Slovenia, but is an important step in that direction. It seems like it is not a coincidence that your victory and discussions about the new family law coincide. 

M: I think our case was mature enough for the final decision by the courts and that it was not in any way connected with the future family law. 

C: We are well aware of the importance of the Supreme court decision (which took more than 3 years). This victory means a lot to us and I must say that our superb and never tiring lawyer Ursa Chitrakar played an important role in this. We and her waited very patiently in hoped for a favorable outcome. If we had lost the case we would appeal to European human rights court. We were asked numerous times why we do not give any statements to the media. We thought that they might become a mean of manipulation of the public opinion or that of people who were making decisions in our case. 

Right wing parties have been using several, many of them uncultivated, methods trying to prevent proposed family law from being passed. 

C: I must say that even though I am well used to the American way of politics, I was not only surprised but shocked when I heard certain politicians who oppose the proposed family law. I firmly support the proposed family law as I believe it rightfully deals with human rights and with protecting child's rights.

Zora was baptized if I am not mistaken. Will her confirmation be in Slovenia?

M: Yes, Zora was baptized in Roman-Catholic church. Unfortunately our wish that she would be baptize in Slovene church in NYC was not realized. She was baptized in a very nice Church of St.Mary.

C: Even though I and Marijan do not go to mass, we decided to have Zora baptize because we are both from Roman-Catholic families. Because we believe in all loving God and not in revengeful God, we will let Zora decide regarding the question of confirmation. Until then we will offer her spiritual education, based on loving God.

Are you ever afraid that something might happen to her that might traumatize her?

M: Life is full of surprises. The worst thing a human can do is to constantly worry about the unknown. We believe in good and in positive results.

C: We intend to always protect Zora as much as we can from her being hurt. We hope that with a good example and good upbringing we can instill into her positive values and understanding that will protect her from possible traumatic events. We believe in good people and surround ourselves with them. Life is too short to be dealing with negativity. Life is full of beautiful moments if you look on it with an open eyes and heart. Like the French saying goes: life's too short to be wearing sad clothes.

When are you returning to Ljubljana?

M: Soon, I hope.

C: We love to come there few times a year, visiting Dedi and Babi (grandpa and grandma), relatives and friends. Slovenia is always a home in our hearts and that is why we are so happy that our daughter has now been secured with all the rights of a Slovenian citizen. 

Do you know that in Slovenia there lives 21 homosexual families? Are you in contact with any of them? Do you plan to get in contact with them?

M: Yes, we are in contact with one of the families via email.

C: We are in contact with Matjaz and Daniel who adopted a daughter in California. We hope that their case will soon be over and they will get all the rights as well. We learned of other families through them and on website Za vse druzine.

Do you think that public exposure might negatively influence your future life?

M: Not at all. All our relatives and friends are well aware of our situation and they accept us as we are. We are a very happy family.

C: This interview is our wish as we can present our family to broader public. We can prove that we are no different from classic families and that our family is based on the same principles of love, respect and understanding. 

When can we expect a second child? Maybe right at the time of referendum on family law?

M: If such is God's will, why not.

C: If opportunity presented itself, we would jump at it at once. Our experience as parents is beyond our wildest dreams... Zora is truly a gift and infinite source of everyday joy and love! If you love someone unconditionally with all your heart, than you will do everything you can possibly do for that person, and not for yourself.